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Is your business leveraging podcasting to grow? Should it be?
In this episode of The Business Owner’s Journey, host Nick Berry sits down with Jessica Rhodes, founder of Interview Connections, the world’s first and leading podcast booking agency. Jessica shares how she started her business, why guesting on podcasts is one of the smartest marketing strategies, and how to build trust with potential clients before they ever speak to you.
Jessica didn’t set out to revolutionize podcast guesting, she just wanted a business she could run from home as a new mom. But with a background in door-to-door canvassing, she had no hesitation reaching out to podcasters and securing interviews for her first client, which happened to be her dad.
Soon, she realized there was a massive gap in the market. No one else was offering podcast booking as a service. She took her experience in networking and relationship-building and launched Interview Connections in 2013, making it the first podcast booking agency of its kind.
Today, her company has booked over 30,000 podcast interviews for more than 800 clients, helping them generate millions in revenue, sell thousands of books, and transform their businesses.
Many business owners think the main goal of podcast guesting is reaching a new audience. While that’s important, Jessica explains that the biggest benefits actually come from:
Jessica emphasizes that podcasting isn’t about chasing immediate leads. Instead, it's about positioning yourself as an authority and making it easy for the right clients to choose you.
Want to shorten your sales cycle? Let potential customers hear you speak before they ever hop on a call.
Jessica shares how in today’s "trust recession," people don’t want to enter a sales conversation without first doing their research. Long-form content like podcasts allows them to binge-listen and get to know you on their own terms.
"If I’m going to consider working with someone, I need to hear them speak. I will never hire a coach if I can’t find a long-form interview with them," says Jessica.
For businesses that rely on trust and relationships, podcasting is one of the most effective ways to warm up potential customers before they ever enter your pipeline.
Podcast guesting is just like sales in that you get better with practice.
Jessica stresses that many business owners don’t do enough interviews to actually get good at them. If you’re only doing an interview once every few months, you’re constantly having to shake off the rust.
Her advice?
If you want to be a compelling guest, you need to put in the rep -just like in any other area of business.
🟢 "People don’t want to enter a sales conversation unless they already know they’re interested. Make it easy for them to learn about you."
🟢 "Podcast guesting isn’t just about getting leads. It’s about relationships, content, and positioning yourself as an authority."
🟢 "If you only do a podcast interview once every few months, you’ll never hit a level of excellence. Keep getting the reps in."
🟢 "Don’t make people work to give you money. Give them content they can consume and trust before they buy."
🟢 "Podcast guesting is one of the best ways to shorten your sales cycle. If they’ve already heard you, they already trust you."
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The Business Owner's Journey Podcast host: Nick Berry
Production Company: FCG
00:00 Jessica Rhodes and Interview Connections
04:01 The Evolution of Podcast Booking Services
06:53 The Value of Podcast Guesting
09:12 Building Authentic Relationships Through Podcasting
12:24 The Importance of Consistency
14:57 Practicing for Success
17:57 Future Trends in Podcasting
21:35 Building Trust
22:48 Podcasting and Video Content
23:01 Do All Businesses Need a Podcast?
25:41 Long-Form Content
27:39 Making It Easy for Clients to Find You
29:50 The Role of the Host in Podcasting
31:49 Leveraging AI
34:49 Effective Calls to Action
Nick Berry (00:12)
This is like 2013, right? What did you see differently that no one else was seeing? What made your light bulb come on?
Jessica Rhodes (00:14)
Yeah.
So I started my business because I wanted to be a stay at home mom. That was really the motivation to have an online business. It wasn't like I wanted to have a business in podcasting. That did come a few months into things, but I wanted to be a stay at home mom. was chatting with you before we started recording how my background is in door to door canvassing. For six years before I started my business, was kind of my college job and post college job was I led a door to door canvas. And so I was used to going door to door. And then when I got married and got pregnant, I was like,
that's not gonna be the lifestyle I want with as like a brand new mom is going out and knocking on doors. Like perfect for a college kid, not, and or like a young professional, but not so much as a mom. And so I talked to my parents because my dad's an entrepreneur. He's had an online business since the early 2000s. And he told me I should start a virtual assistant business. I'm like, okay, sure. So my dad said, I'll be your first client. And I'm like, great, check first client, done. And...
Nick Berry (01:17)
This is easy.
Jessica Rhodes (01:19)
I'm like, let's go. And he goes, I mean, if you want me to say a client, like you have to do a good job. Like I'm going to give you a chance. I'm like, yeah, totally. And so I was reading all of his, he's written a lot of books about business and marketing, taking his online courses. And one of the things that he asked me to do for him was to book him as a guest on podcasts because he had started a podcast in 2012 and was doing some interviews as a guest on other people's podcasts.
And he's like, was a great way for him to get clients, like get coaching clients and just to build his network without having to always travel. And so he asked me if I would book him and door to door experience, I am not shy about reaching out to people I don't know and asking for something. So I just took that door to door experience and applied it to reaching out to podcasters virtually. So I started booking my dad, reaching out to podcasters, emailing them and connecting podcast hosts with podcast guests.
And nobody was doing that at the time. Now, you know, Nick having a podcast, you get pitched all the time. People wanting to be on your show. That was not happening in 2013. Like podcast hose that I would email with a guest suggestion. We're like, Whoa, who are you? Like nobody's nobody had pitched them before. And so as my son was getting a little older, like three months old, I'm thinking I want to, you know,
I'm learning all about these entrepreneurs and online business and marketing and financial freedom. And I'm like, well, I'm not going to be financially free at a $15 an hour freelance virtual assistant business. So we need another plan here. So I talked to my dad and I'm, was doing a bunch of things for him and some other clients and podcast booking was the one thing I was doing that people wanted. Like there was a demand for it. Nobody else was doing it. I really enjoyed it. Like I had a knack for it. I loved.
like matchmaking because knowing my dad so well and knowing my other clients, I could not only look at the fit of the show, like, your expertise in your show. I could look at their personalities and be like, you guys are really going to get along. So I love like that matchmaking aspect. And so my dad helped me come up with this idea to take that and make a business around this one service I was offering as a VA.
And we came up with the idea to call it interview connections because I was literally connecting people for interviews. Got the domain on GoDaddy and yeah, launched the company September 2013 is when the website went live and started getting clients. And that's really how the business started.
Nick Berry (03:50)
Yeah. And so an example for the listeners of you demonstrating this matchmaking, like you seeing the opportunities is, don't know, what were we maybe 10 minutes into our conversation before we were recording and she's like, Hey, you know what we could do here? I could come on and I could interview you on your show about this topic that you haven't talked about. I'm like, I mean, you're right. It's a great idea. That's what we need to do. And we will.
Jessica Rhodes (04:16)
Yeah,
yeah. And Nick, it's so funny because I had never done that before. I've never pitched myself as a guest host, but I just saw, that's what I love about podcast guessing and podcasting is it gives people the opportunity to share a story that isn't something that they're just gonna be posting about on social media. Unless it's pulled out of them by somebody asking them questions.
A lot of what we share as a podcast guest, we don't talk about. We need somebody to ask us those questions. I got so many questions for you. I'm like, you probably haven't shared this with your audience. Let me interview you and draw it out so your audience can actually learn from you because you feature all these other people. So yeah, that's what I love about this medium and why I was like, I think this is the service I need to build a whole business around.
Nick Berry (04:54)
You
Yeah. And obviously
it was a good choice. So tell me how the landscape has changed in the world of podcasts, booking agencies from then until now
Jessica Rhodes (05:20)
the landscape has changed. It's changed so much and then not a lot at the same time. And so what I mean by that is it's changed so much and that there are so many services that can help somebody get booked on podcasts. And the range is from like a high-end booking agency like us where we have full-time employees, we have a whole program, like it's guaranteed, very concierge all the way down to Facebook groups.
where people can just connect directly through posts, and everything in between. People have in-house staff, like assistants doing this, or publicist PR firms have added it on as an arm. So it's really expanded quite a bit. And the reason I say at the same time it hasn't changed a lot is because how you write a pitch, what the one sheet should be, all of that is pretty similar to how it was in 2013. Like the actual method of...
of pitching and booking and identifying who would be a great fit and what podcast interviews sound like. At its core, it's the same. Like I look at YouTube videos I did in 2015, like with tips and tricks on podcasts and the video quality has changed. I look a little bit younger because it was a while ago, but I'm like, this is good content. Like all the tips that I was sharing back then are still relevant today, even if they're, you know, some of the technology has evolved.
Nick Berry (06:40)
Yeah, you were onto something, right? So you were talking about kind of the scope of potential services that are out there. Is there a need for all of that? Or is that just because it's like kind of like business coaching, like marketing agencies, there's just such a low barrier to entry that they just exist.
Jessica Rhodes (06:42)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
you know, is there a need for it? Yes, for the right people, you know, there are people that will come to me they're like, but do I really need this? Like I could just send an email and do it myself. I'm like, well, it sounds like you don't need it then. But then there's people that are like, how do I pitch and how do I find them? And I don't have the time. I'm like, sounds like you need it. So it's just like with everything, you know, with every business out there, it's needed and valued by the, by the right audience, by the right people.
Nick Berry (07:20)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Rhodes (07:26)
And that's why I think it's great that there's a range of services out there. mean, there's like software as a service matchmaking websites where for a very low subscription fee, hosts and guests can just kind of find each other. And then there's, you know, the agencies where it's like, you have an actual booking team that's researching and finding shows and pitching and just doing it all for you. So you just have to show up. There's the DIY free Facebook groups. Like there's all different levels because there's all different people with different budgets and different reasons that they're doing it.
So yeah.
Nick Berry (07:56)
And
they want to, it depends on like how well you want to do it and how fast you want to do it, right?
Jessica Rhodes (07:59)
Exactly.
Right, exactly. Yeah, how well, what your goal is, what kind of ROI do you want to see? mean, some people wrote a book as a hobby, a passion. They're not looking to invest thousands of dollars in marketing it, but they do want to get some bookings. One of the lower end options, less expensive options are perfect for that person. But for six, seven, eight figure entrepreneur who's like, this is an actual marketing investment, they do need something higher end. So it just depends who you are, what your goal is.
Nick Berry (08:25)
Well, I have my theory that I'm going to share with you on this and you can like correct me or shoot holes in it. when I got into this, something that I thought I saw as a big opportunity is just that in general, guests still don't seem to consistently get as much return or get as much mileage out of the investment of their time.
as on podcast is what I think they should.
Jessica Rhodes (08:54)
Yeah, and if people
are listening to audio only, I'm nodding, so.
Nick Berry (08:58)
Yeah, that's the validation
that I needed right there. You will see when we finish our production, the assets and everything that we send you, we're trying to do a lot and a lot of new and different things to give you more assets, increase the shelf life of the assets that you get so it feels a lot less transient.
Jessica Rhodes (09:03)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Nick Berry (09:24)
on the part of the guest and then, you know, for us, the benefit is, kind of runs in parallel to that, right? It gives us longer shelf life too. So you nodding your head, think I get that you never see the same thing. Tell me what it looks like from your side.
Jessica Rhodes (09:37)
yeah.
Yeah, like I'll tell you as somebody that leverages this strategy, like I do 30, 40 podcast interviews every single year. So I walk my talk. The number, like the first primary two reasons I do this is for the networking with the host, like meeting other podcast hosts, meeting other business owners. I don't have time to do one-on-one networking calls. but I do have time for podcast interviews because I'm getting to know you one-on-one, but I know your audience is listening and there's going to be content that comes out of this. And that's number two.
I do this for the relationships with the podcast host, and I do this for the content. Those are the two reasons I do this. the fact that, I mean, not the only two, but those are the top two benefits to me. The fact that whether it's 100 people or 5,000 people are gonna listen to this conversation is a huge value add, but it's not the number one reason I do it, if that makes sense. And so the reason I point that out is because a lot of people do this, number one reason is for the audience.
And then they just think that they do an interview and that's it.
Nick Berry (10:43)
Check them out.
Jessica Rhodes (10:44)
They're like, I did the interview, let's see what happens. And it's like, well, you didn't invest in a relationship with the host. Like you didn't ask anything about them. one of my clients actually, I'll tell you a story. One of our clients actually told us that in the green room chat before the podcast, he asks hosts why they start their podcasts. And the most amazing conversations come out of it. I am thrilled to report back to my clients like.
You guys, asked Nick why he started his podcast and then through that conversation, I recommended that I come on as a guest host. Like that wouldn't have happened if I didn't take an interest in you and your story. And so when guests take an interest in the host, so much more will come out of that relationship and that conversation. The interview will be better. So then when the episode goes live, hosts will give you some clips and then.
share that on your social media. Like I will send to prospective clients before a consultation call. I'll send them a link to a podcast appearance. did. say, check this out because you close more sales when the leads are warmer and they get to know you and they trust you more. And podcast appearances are a great way to build trust.
Nick Berry (11:49)
so the information that you sent us, those podcasts, that's one of the best things you can do, right? Because it gives me a head start showing up here to this conversation. already am kind of picking up where I, at least in my head, I left off of getting to know you. And had we not been dressed already had some things that I was like, you know, I'd
I felt like I could relate to with you.
Jessica Rhodes (12:13)
Yeah,
yes. And for the listeners who aren't watching us on video, I'm wearing a green sweater, Nick's wearing a green t-shirt, and we both commented on how we're glad we sent each other the memo to dress alike.
Nick Berry (12:25)
And, now you can see it's no accident that it's turned into you coming back, you hosting, interviewing me. So, and we've only been on here for, I mean, not even an hour total.
Jessica Rhodes (12:37)
And just a side tip, because my interviews are always very meta, because I'm talking about podcast guesting while doing a podcast interview. So I like to kind of pull back the curtain and say, hey, listeners, look what I just did, because everything is not, I want to say it's intentional. I make a point to be authentic. I let my personality come out. That is who I am, to comment and make dad jokes of like, glad you got the memo. that is just my personality. But if I were to hold back and just being a
like interview me about my topic, like there wouldn't be that connection there. So be authentic, know, be yourself on these interviews before and after the recording.
Nick Berry (13:06)
Mm-hmm.
mentioning the guests, like having, wanting to create an experience for guests that, that doesn't feel transient, right? That feels like we kind of, had something here and, and that adding some juice or adding some extra mileage to what they're able to get out of the content. I think what you just described plays a big part in that. even if it's not like consciously,
You know, I can just think back to the, my guests, I think I've been very fortunate. They've, they've been fantastic. there've been a few experiences that I've had where someone was for whatever reason, maybe they're just a quiet person, but there was not really any, nothing authentic came out. And so that kind of gave, gives that sense of I'm here to check this box and move on. And if that's.
Jessica Rhodes (13:49)
Mm-hmm.
Nick Berry (14:03)
you know, on my mind already as to the thing that we want to avoid, you know, you, that's a perception that they don't want to, to convey. So just being able to come on and be yourself. Perfect or imperfect, whatever it is, it's a reality. Like, I think that's part of why people like the podcast anyway, because it's a little, it's unfiltered for the most part. It's unfiltered. minus mine is unfiltered and, it just feels much more real.
Jessica Rhodes (14:06)
Yeah.
Yeah.
It is. And also for the listeners who are thinking about getting on podcasts or maybe you're doing some podcasts, make this a consistent part of your marketing strategy. Like don't just do a couple here and there. Don't just do like five or 10 throughout the year. It's we're recording this February 5th and this is my ninth podcast interview this year. Like I'm coming in hot. And the fact that I've like, this is my third or fourth interview I've done this week alone. Like
The gears are all oiled. Like I am ready to go. Like I'm not brushing off the dust and like remembering how to share my story. Like I am so much more enthused and outgoing with you because I'm practiced and I do this multiple times every single month. And even though I've been doing it 11 years, I've had periods of time where I kind of pull back and I'm not as visible. And when I get back on that horse, so to speak, and back into the interviews, I am a little rusty. I'm not as...
like as eloquent with the way I'm speaking because I've got to get used to it again. So if you only do one interview a month or one interview every other month, every time you do an interview, you're practicing again and you can never get to that point of excellence. So do multiple interviews every single month, you will get so much better.
Nick Berry (15:39)
Yeah. I mean, that it reminds me of something that you learn when you're being taught sales, right? It's like you need to get reps and they're going to, sometimes it's going to feel very clunky, but you need to get through that to get it smoothed out. And then if you get away from the reps, you may get rusty again and you've got to shake that off.
Jessica Rhodes (15:48)
Mm-hmm.
You're speaking my language with sales there.
Nick Berry (15:59)
Yeah. It's not
really something. So, you know, I learned that stuff by force. I didn't, I wasn't drawn to it, but I learned, you know, I needed to do those things and the reps were part of it. so.
Jessica Rhodes (16:05)
Mm-hmm.
Yep. Yeah.
The practice, the practice. I have a sales team and you know, we do role plays. We listen back to our calls. I mean, even me, I've got, you know, 15 years of experience in sales, but still like I listened back to my calls. I see where I can get better. I role play like, that's that applies in everything in business is like, you've got to practice. You have to run, you know, put in the reps, run the drills and always be going, you know, for better and better. And so many people write off podcasting and podcast guessing, and they just say it didn't work.
And I say, no, it's not that it didn't work. It's that you weren't a compelling enough guest. You didn't share stories that people were interested in. didn't make the listeners want or the guests or the, yeah, no, the listeners don't want to reach out to you. Like nobody's taking responsibility for their own results. This strategy works when you're good at it.
Nick Berry (16:58)
That's
it. Right. It's not, it's just not a thing that you can check the box. Yeah. Yeah. So you've, you're talking about so many things that I really, really appreciate the, kind of that sense of agency over the outcome. before that, this is another one of my like harping points, but you mentioned, the role play. Like, I think that is probably the most, undervalued activity.
Jessica Rhodes (17:02)
Mm-hmm.
I know.
Yes. Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nick Berry (17:27)
that goes on
and it's not just exclusive to sales. And then people resist that. It's like, it's the one thing anybody can do and everybody fights it. And everybody, nobody's comfortable with it.
Jessica Rhodes (17:30)
Yeah.
Yeah, I know I have a background in theater, so I'm a little bit more comfortable, but most people aren't and it is an awkward thing to be like role playing. But you know, some of my clients tell me, yeah, I role play with my, like I had my wife interview me, you know, ask me the questions that I've prepared for podcasts. So practice it. That is the best thing. If you are at all nervous, if you're not a super experienced speaker practice, you know, we do interview audits for our clients. Like we'll listen back and give them feedback because
Nick Berry (17:59)
you
Jessica Rhodes (18:04)
Once you're kind of on the court, if I lean into my sports metaphors, which I love to do, once you're on the court, like it's up to you, you're just there, but go back. Like this is why coaches, they watch the tape, they watch the game, they rewatch it, they see what happened. Do that with your own interviews. Go back, listen.
My salesperson is doing, he's gonna start doing like live trainings in our Facebook group. And I'm like, we have this private Facebook group that's only the team. Like it's like, I'm in there and it's just so you can practice going live without the audience watching. I said, go live in the group, in the practice group, just practice. Practice with nobody watching. And he's like, it was so awkward, but he goes, can see how that was helpful. So practice is key.
Nick Berry (18:43)
Yeah, I love that. mean, the more of these things that you mentioned about your internal practices, it's easy to be able to discern the difference. Like this is a professional operation versus the, the lower buried entry, operator who is trying to figure things out and have something to sell. it's not an accident that you guys have had the, done what you've done in the time that you've done it. So I love hearing about this.
Jessica Rhodes (18:54)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Nick Berry (19:08)
2025, like what are the trends or, you what's the direction that this is going? How do businesses need to put podcasting to work for themselves?
Jessica Rhodes (19:12)
Yeah.
I mean, number one, businesses need to put podcasts, need to work for themselves. I'm still flabbergasted by how many business owners aren't leveraging the podcast medium because right now there is, this is not my phrase, I don't know who to credit it to because somebody else credited somebody else for it, but there's a trust recession. And I don't mean to say all consumers don't trust anyone, but in comparison to where we were five years ago, six years ago, buyers do have,
less trust in the companies that they're considering working with. And so having long form content for your audience to binge consume before they enter the sales conversation with you is super, super important. So there is less trust because there's so much more competition. Like there's so many more other companies doing what you do. Even in a niche space like mine, where we are the first podcast booking agent market, I have a lot of competition. Like there's a lot of other people that do what I do.
Which is why I'm doubling down on organic marketing, on visibility, on advertising, because there's just a lot more noise out there. There's a lot more people doing it. And so why I say all that is because where things are going in like the podcast industry, there's a lot more video. I have not been on a single podcast that was audio only. No, that's one, one at the very beginning of 2024, every other podcast I've done, which is about 50 at this point in just the last year have all been on video.
And you see the shows with the bigger budgets. They actually have in-person studios with like the whole video set up. Like that's really where things are going. This whole like, like I see podcasts and YouTube, it's all kind of merging into long form video shows. So that's kind of where I see things going.
Nick Berry (21:01)
So this is another, I guess this Nick theory, I think I know where you'll stand on Should every business be using a podcast in some way, small businesses anyway, be using a podcast in some way at this point?
Jessica Rhodes (21:05)
Mm-hmm.
That's a good question. mean, I don't know where you stand on this. I'm guessing you think yes, because you have a podcast, but I actually think no. I don't think every business needs to have a podcast. And that may contradict what I just said, because I do think that businesses leveraging long form audio only content is really, really valuable. But the only reason I say no to that is because unless you as an entrepreneur,
want to have a podcast or you have a team member who is dedicated to having that podcast, it's not gonna be effective if it's not getting published consistently, if whoever is hosting it isn't interested in the content. Like people don't really want to listen to podcasts that there's not a genuine interest in the content that's being talked about. Now that being said, you can have a very intentional podcast just for your...
marketing funnel where you are just interviewing guests who you see as prospective clients. And it doesn't matter how many people are listening, but it's really designed to be a networking tool that can work. But again, it's still going to be worked to produce and to create, and you got to stay on top of it. so if the business is really committed to it, yes, it can do a lot for your brand and your authority, but it can also do the opposite if you have it, but don't do it well.
Nick Berry (22:34)
It's like, you're doing it randomly rather than as a part of a strategy, it's just like anything else, right? The wrong tactic shoehorned into a strategy where it doesn't fit is, it's not going to work. The thing, and everything that you said makes sense. So think I'll probably still I'm going to stop short of saying that all small businesses should be leveraging it somehow. But the angle that is
Jessica Rhodes (22:37)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Nick Berry (22:59)
become more apparent to me since I've been doing my podcast is I have a consult with a few small businesses who are, working through iterating on their messaging, trying to like get their position really smoothed out and it's getting reps. And so I know for me, one of the best things that I've taken away from podcasting is
the reps restating this and I have these conversations and I, you know, they asked someone to ask me about my story or about a stuff thing that I've done. And it's making me talk about these things and learn to like bring them into the conversation and how I want to state them and get it to still down. So I think for someone who is trying to iron out their messaging, I think it could be good. It probably isn't an indefinite thing. Maybe something that's done in like a shorter.
Jessica Rhodes (23:50)
Mm-hmm.
Nick Berry (23:54)
a batch of episodes or something. But then also you mentioned the make it something being, being able to binge something. Like I think all of my clients, I'm telling them at the very least record a half dozen episodes about the, pillar content and your backstory, like capture all the main high points. So if somebody wants to come in and they want to know everything that they need to know about you right now, they can do it.
Jessica Rhodes (23:57)
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes, give people an opportunity to listen to you. for example, if I'm looking, like seeking information about a specific topic where I know there's subject matter experts in it, I'm going to be looking for that.
I had, like, I'll just give you the example. I'm like dancing around it, but so I am researching a lot about ADHD because we think my daughter has it. And so I'm like on the hunt. like, I know there's experts in this, right? There's parenting coaches, there's psychiatrists, there's people that have written books about it. And so I'm researching all around. And for example, somebody in my mastermind group said, you should connect with this person. She's one of my clients. Like this is her whole thing. And so I go to her Instagram and I haven't done a deep dive yet, but there's like a lot of quote graphics and little reels.
But if I really am going to consider working with a coach on something, I want to be able to hear them speak. I will never hire a coach if I don't either know them or have seen them speak at like in a long form content, go into a whole master class or heard them be interviewed. And so, and I've saw the same thing a couple of years ago when I was researching like fitness trainers, those that people told me about if they hadn't been doing podcasts, like if I couldn't find them on Spotify or Apple, I'm out of there. Like I'm not going to try to.
learn about you, like you need to make it easy for me to learn about you.
Nick Berry (25:34)
my background being in the fitness world, I know what you're talking about. There are a lot very skilled, very knowledgeable, talented, absolutely worthy service providers who are kind of hidden and not, they built their business on referrals alone. And so in the case of you being referred to them, great, but otherwise you're not going to find them.
Jessica Rhodes (25:47)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nick Berry (25:59)
And you're not going to see their credibility for what it really is because they haven't put anything else out there. They haven't had to, guess, but that doesn't last forever.
Jessica Rhodes (26:06)
Yeah.
talk to people all the time who are like, I've grown by word of mouth and referral and now I need to expand. And I'm like, yeah, you need to expand because if you're probably losing sales from referrals of people that just aren't going to take the next step. Like, sure, people said, yeah, this is my trainer. I love them. They're amazing. They changed my life. I lost all the sweet. I'm so much stronger. But I'm not going to book a call with that. Like, I don't really book sales calls with people unless I'm like pretty sure I'm to work with them. Like, because I just don't want to enter someone's sales funnel unless I'm
pretty certain. So even when people are like, just book a call with them. I'm like, no, I hate when people waste my time if they don't intend on working with me. So I'm only gonna book a call if I know that I'm in the buyer mode. Before that, give me a podcast to listen to. Like that was the first question I asked you. Have you any podcasts about that? Cause I wanna go listen. So like that, and that's how so many consumers are. They want to be able to consume and do their own research before they enter this conversation where then there's gonna be follow-up emails and.
Nick Berry (26:43)
Bye.
Jessica Rhodes (27:08)
I don't want to waste people's time. Let me learn about you through a podcast before having a conversation.
Nick Berry (27:14)
And no matter who you are, if you're not willing to put something out there for people to be able to go through and qualify themselves, they're not going to come beat your door down and take it from you. They're going to go find somebody else who was willing to do it. Right.
Jessica Rhodes (27:31)
Yes, you have to make it easy for people to learn about you. Like that is the point of podcasts and podcast guessing. The goal is to make it easy for the market to find you, make it easy for the market to get to know you, make it easy for your prospective clients to choose you. Like you have to make it easy. Life is hard enough. Don't make people work to give you money.
Nick Berry (27:55)
You know, it shouldn't have to be said, but it does. Yeah. I mean, I've been guilty of it. I know.
Jessica Rhodes (27:57)
I know. Exactly.
Yeah, we all have. That's how we learn.
Nick Berry (28:03)
That's right. role does the host play or can the host play? Like I'm looking at you as a, as an advocate for the guests and a very good one. You're probably broader than that. That's probably doing you a disservice. You're probably like an advocate for, the function of, or the value of podcasting. Um, but.
Jessica Rhodes (28:12)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nick Berry (28:25)
Where's the opportunity for the host to do better?
Jessica Rhodes (28:29)
Yeah.
Nick Berry (28:27)
So how can I, someone in my role,
align better with someone in your role?
Jessica Rhodes (28:33)
for us to work well with hosts, like we're always asking, what are you looking for in guests? Because we always want to make sure that you're getting the guests that you're looking for for your show, right? So like as a booking agency, once we build a relationship with a host, we say like, what types of guests are you looking for? What types of stories do you want to share? What's like, who's your ideal? Like, who's your target audience? Who are your listeners? What do they want to learn about? What have you done episodes on?
so having like an open line of communication with a booking agency that has guests, it'll make it so much better because the thing that exhausts most podcast hosts is getting pitches that aren't the right fit. But once you have a relationship with a booking agency or some podcast hosts, have relationships with multiple booking agencies who have guests that they could, that, you know, could be on their show. Like tell us what you want and tell us what you don't want to.
because we take very meticulous notes and records about like what people want, what people don't want, when they need a pause, like don't pitch me for two months, we make a note of that. So just like communication is everything.
Nick Berry (29:32)
Okay. And I mean, it sounds like it's just communicating things that we ought to already know. So it's not like I'm having to come up. It's not an additional homework assignment.
Jessica Rhodes (29:37)
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah. And then just like leading great interviews, you know, like when we have a great, like whenever I have a great experience with a host, like I'm having right now, like I go tell my team, we tell our clients, like we say, like, we've already had people on this show. They've had a great experience. Like you're going to have a great experience too.
Nick Berry (29:57)
when, somebody wins in that scenario, everybody wins and that's how it should be.
Jessica Rhodes (29:58)
Yeah, exactly.
Nick Berry (30:02)
What about, so I have to ask a question about AI because, you know, that's it right now. how are you guys using AI? What, what role do you feel like AI needs to play in all of this?
Jessica Rhodes (30:05)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm a late adopter to AI. I think I kind of started using AI like five or six months ago. And I honestly love it. I think that when used correctly, really helps you go faster. It helps you get more done. It can kind of be a sounding board. I mean, just today, we were crafting an email to a client who wanted kind of an update on where his account was at.
And so we wrote this whole email and then I put the email in ChatGBT and I say, like, here's what the client said, here's the email we wrote, like, how does this sound? And ChatGBT's like, analyzes it and kind of rephrases it. I do that with my marketing content, my texts, my social media posts, my emails, I write them and then I put them in ChatGBT and just say like, how's this email? And it gives you some feedback. Sometimes I take it, sometimes I don't.
but it's super helpful in that. did the same thing with topics and questions or pitches for podcast hosts, like one sheet topics and questions or pitches. Again, you write it, put it in chat GPT and say, what do you think? And then you just get feedback from it. It's incredible. And then AI for clips, there's a website called Opus Pro where you can put your podcast appearance in. It'll create a little 30 second, one minute clips of your whole video. I use that to create social media content. I mean, there's just so many different tools.
We don't replace our actual human work with AI, but we leverage AI to get it done faster and potentially better.
Nick Berry (31:40)
that seems to be kind of where, for the most part, the masses are arriving at right now as its best use. And I think being able to, beyond that, maybe use it as like a thought partner to bounce ideas. Yeah.
Jessica Rhodes (31:46)
Mm-hmm.
100%. It's like my sounding board.
Yeah, absolutely. It's great. And I just started actually, because we were talking about sales, we just started using this app called triple session, which is fantastic. It's an AI sales coach. So we actually put our sales calls into triple session and it analyzes the sales call, like multiple points. Like did the rep do this? Did the rep ask?
the agenda, did the rep set up follow-up meeting, like it's all, and then it has training videos. So I just started using that and my sales person and I are like, this is incredible. Cause it's actually like giving very specific feedback. So AI is fantastic.
Nick Berry (32:37)
Yeah. I'm a big fan of like frameworks and methodologies. So when you have a framework, whether it's a sales conversation or like for your business strategy, marketing strategy, if you have some type of methodology to use as a basis to communicate with the AI, that's one of my favorite things to use.
Are there any other?
home runs that you want to throw out there and leave with the audience?
Jessica Rhodes (33:02)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'll give some tips on the call to action because we talked about like the host relationship and, you know, repurposing the interviews, but when you're actually on the podcast, you know, give a call to action at the end, like the host will for the most part, sometimes they don't, but you know, ask where can our listeners connect with you and find you online. And a lot of guests will just be like, here's my website. I'm on social media. They'll just send people everywhere. And then they wonder.
why their list isn't growing or why they're not getting more people reaching out. So depending on what your business is, you might want to choose something different, but you know, send people to your website where they can book a call, send them to a landing page where they can get a free gift. Like I like recommending that people go download our podcast interview prep checklist at interviewconnections.com slash prep. You know, it's a, just a short landing page with a free gift. That's super relevant to what I talk about in my podcast appearances. And so.
that's a really good way to grow your email list when you're guesting is to give people a specific next step because that's, yeah, if you don't do that, you're gonna do interviews, you'll build relationships with hosts, you'll get content, but you'll miss out on the, like, you'll miss out on the audience growth that can happen when you give a specific call to action.
Nick Berry (34:16)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and you can to do it as naturally as you just did it even if the host is going to do it as well That's great. I wouldn't assume that they're going to do it. I definitely didn't hurt doesn't hurt anything for you to do it and them to do it Yeah
Jessica Rhodes (34:23)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly.
And you don't want it to be salesy. You don't want it to be anything that's paid. It's just like, hey, if you liked what we talked about, I've got this free gift. can go get it here. Super simple.
Nick Berry (34:43)
Yeah. Value forward. I love it. Well, Jessica, thank you. This is awesome. I appreciate you taking the time and jumping on. I'm definitely going to take you up on you coming back and we'll do this again. So yeah,
Jessica Rhodes (34:44)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Let's do it. I'm excited.
Nick Berry is an accomplished entrepreneur and CEO, whose track record includes founding and leading numerous companies since 2002.
After his most recent exit he started Redesigned.Business to mentor and coach to other entrepreneurs and business owners who are looking for a trusted (and proven) advisor.
Among peers, colleagues, staff, and clients, Nick has been referred to as both 'The Business Guy' as well as 'The Anti-Guru', due to his pragmatic approach and principled leadership.
He shares his insights and lessons learned, along with those of his expert guests,
on his podcast, 'The Business Owner's Journey'.
