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In this special '12 Days of Business' edition of The Business Owner’s Journey, host Nick Berry talks with Matt Diggity, SEO expert, entrepreneur, and founder of Diggity Marketing. Matt shares his proven strategies for building a team of A players, how to identify and recruit top talent, and the role strong partnerships play in scaling businesses. The conversation also touches on the importance of company culture, the toxic effects of B and C players, and how Matt applies these principles across his companies and investments.
Matt emphasizes the critical importance of hiring A players and shares his strategy for identifying them. Drawing from the book Who: The A Method for Hiring, he recommends asking reference-based questions like, “What would your former boss rate you on a scale of 1 to 10?” Candidates who score below an 8 likely aren’t true A players. He also notes that A players tend to recommend others like them, creating a ripple effect of high-performing hires.
Matt explains the detrimental effect B and C players have on company culture. He notes that when top performers see underperformers being rewarded or retained, it erodes morale and productivity. "Mediocre people don’t like high performers, and high performers don’t like mediocre people,” he says, underscoring the importance of maintaining a team exclusively made up of A players.
Matt shares how his hiring philosophy extends to his business partnerships and investments. In his collaborations, such as his partnership with a real estate agency in Toronto, he focuses on adding value through his marketing expertise while letting his partners excel in their areas of strength. These partnerships have led to notable successes, including acquisitions and significant growth in multiple ventures.
This episode is part of the 12 Days of Business mini-series.
Matt Diggity also appeared in a previous episode of The Business Owner's Journey: Matt Diggity: How a World-Class SEO Expert Builds a Digital Marketing Empire
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The Business Owner's Journey Podcast host: Nick Berry
Production Company: FCG
Nick Berry (00:00)
The Business Owner's Journey. I'm Nick Berry and I've got real business owners telling their real stories, sharing their real lessons and strategies so you don't have to figure it all out on your
Nick Berry (00:12)
I'm wrapping up season one of the business owners journey with a special series, the 12 days of business. 12 days, 12 episodes with 12 of my previous guests. Today's 12 days of business episode, I've got Matt Diggity.
Matt was recently a guest this fall. And of course we talked about SEO because everybody knows Matt for SEO. The reason that I had him on the podcast was because I wanted to talk about how he's built his organization. We talked about his org chart, talked about partnerships, talked about hiring. And it all kind of revolved around this philosophy of hiring and partnering with A players and the effects that that has on you how it.
for all intents and purposes, should put you in your lane, let you apply your strengths and focus on doing those things and be able to rely on other people to do the things that they do really well.
I like the philosophy. think like most things, it's easier said than done. wasn't implying that it was easy, more that it was the best fit for him and for his organization.
He did share some of the resources that have influenced him and which I'm familiar with. He referenced the book WHO and that's where they've got some of their hiring practices from.
The biggest takeaway, think probably from this segment that I'm going to share of my conversation with Matt is that, yes, it is easier said than done, but it's not something that you just hope to happen. You don't just decide we're going to hire A players or we're going to build a team of only A players and the decision be what brings it to There are like practical steps that have to be applied. And so that's what we kind of got into and
I thought that was just an extremely valuable section of the conversation and information that Matt brought. So I wanted to bring that here and share that for the 12 days.
Nick Berry (01:59)
And remember, make sure you're subscribed so you get the entire 12 Days of Business series. If you prefer, I can email them to you. And you'll also get the episode pages, exclusive guest profiles, and the resources that I'm only sending out through email. So if you want that, go to nickberry.info slash 12 days. That's the number one, two days. Now enjoy the show.
Nick Berry (02:22)
You mentioned with your portfolio of companies, you essentially have an operator, or you called it an integrator, I call it an operator, but that they partner with you. What does your org chart look like in your organization?
Matt Diggity (02:32)
it looks like this. Here's me and then here's a head of sales and here's head of marketing and here's operations. This is my branch. And then here's my partner's branch operations. And I don't know what he has underneath him. We just don't, we don't fiddle with each other. We don't question each other. I think we will, as long as you're partnered with A players, like that's the best way to.
Nick Berry (02:54)
you mentioned one of the keys, hiring A players. how did you have your epiphany? How do you hire A players? what's your angle on making sure that you're getting A players?
Matt Diggity (03:05)
mean, the biggest part of it is experience. So when you're first starting out and just like, all right, we have this new role we need to hire for, we're gonna like train up some intern or some, you know, like a VA and we're gonna get a great deal on them or train them up and you know, it's gonna be great. That works in the beginning where you're bootstrapping and making money. But like when you're at the higher level and you can't afford to the time sink of like putting into something.
putting investment into someone and they don't work out. I think it's just not worth it. So the key thing I hire for is have they done what we need done before successfully? And that just really structuring interview process around that. And a lot of that is checking references. One of the game changer book that I had when it came to hiring is called Who? The A Method for Hiring, HWO. And it just took all this like mysticism out of the hiring process. It's just like breaks down.
at this stage ask this question, there's no way to lie around it. Something like, when I talk to your former boss, what will they rate you on a scale of one to 10? And like they have to give an honest answer. And if they say seven, know, eight players aren't seventh, eight players are eight, nines and tens. So you just immediately filter them with one single question.
Nick Berry (04:22)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
I love that. I've read that book where they took the top grading methodology and made it probably more practical. using the references is a big part of it, right? And then just kind of making it clear to them, even the phrasing that you used of, when I talk to your boss.
Matt Diggity (04:35)
Mm
Nick Berry (04:42)
So you're telling them right there, like it's going to happen. So you may as well go ahead and let's get it all out on the table. And I think what you said at first, which I also agree with, and I think it's really important is at a certain point, you just need turnkey. Let someone else pay to train them, go through like the learning process. You need turnkey and early on, that's fine. You don't have to do it that way.
Matt Diggity (04:42)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mmm.
Nick Berry (05:07)
You probably can't do it that way, but the goal should be you need turnkey people on your team.
Matt Diggity (05:14)
Yeah. Like, you know, like a B or C player in your organization is toxic. You like if someone's working inside, there's a player, room full of A players are doing their work and they see C players getting away with like delivering subpar work, but getting the same wage as you, it starts to percolate down over to the A players and then you just lost your company culture. But I really feel like it's, it's really A players or nothing.
Nick Berry (05:41)
I love it. it's ambitious, but I love it. this is the second time this week that I've used this Nick Saban quote he made the comment or made some quote in a press conference, I believe about, mediocre people don't like high performers and high performers don't like mediocre people. And that's what's happening in your culture when that A player sees somebody getting away with B or C level shit.
Matt Diggity (05:57)
Mmm.
Nick Berry (06:03)
They don't want to be in that environment.
Matt Diggity (06:07)
Yeah, yeah, totally. Another funny thing along that same line of thinking is like, if you're trying to get references for a new hire, like you don't ask your B players, B players will never recommend someone that's gonna make them look bad. A players refuse to work with B players like you said, so, and they're worried about their reputation. So A players recommend A players. And that's probably one of the best places where I've gotten hires is just asking my existing A players, like who do you know?
Nick Berry (06:28)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah. the whole strategy begins to snowball and perpetuate itself, right?
Matt Diggity (06:38)
Mm -hmm. yeah.
Nick Berry (06:39)
Okay, so partnerships, Can you tell me about what's going on right now, partnership wise? Give a little insight to your approach there.
Matt Diggity (06:47)
Yeah, well, partner wise, so I do angel investments and partnerships. In any kind of angel investment, I like to look for something where I can have an impact. for example, Surfer, the SEO SaaS tool I told you about before, like we grew to 50 million ARR. And I think a big part of that, or at least a non -zero part of that is what I could help them with in terms of marketing and leveraging my audience and getting it in front of people.
And also, you know, we did a lot of product feedback too. like with Angel, you know, I'm going to help you work with your business, but I'm not going to work on your business. With partnerships, like I talked about before, is like when we partnered with law firms, real estate agencies, I'm going to be your marketing department. And you can, you worry about, you know, selling condos, right? I'll take on your marketing. So these, I really don't have a spec for a business that I...
I like to look for, but really into e -comm, SaaS, and then any high ticket in local business, real estate agency, law firm stuff.
Nick Berry (07:57)
Okay. You got any success stories that you can share, experiences that you've had with those companies?
Matt Diggity (08:04)
Sure. It's still in the portfolios pre -condo. They're Toronto real estate agency. We started with them from ground zero. I knew my partner Jordan just because he was like an ex -SEO and he's like, hey, I got to focus on this agency. Do you want to take over on the SEO and see where we can take this thing? We just got acquired by IRISE Realty last year. Yeah, little bit last year sometime.
I mean, it's exactly how it sounds. know, like he was able to grow the business, hire agents and all that stuff, sell condos. And we just took over the marketing and eventually ended up as the top pre -construction condo seller in Toronto, just by pure SEO. And also he's focused on YouTube as well.
Nick Berry (08:52)
And got acquired, you said?
Matt Diggity (08:54)
Yeah, we got acquired. It was awesome. Yeah. Thanks, man
Nick Berry (08:56)
Congrats. Yeah, it's not bad when that's not even the main goal,
Matt Diggity (09:01)
Yeah, it's just a bonus. Well, I mean, the thing with the thing with SEO is like most of the time you're doing agency work for other businesses, you're helping them grow, which is fantastic and good for them. But like the downside for an SEO agency is a lot of times they'll just leave you when they got the results. We're at the top now. We don't need you anymore. Thanks for your help. When you're doing partnerships like we are is like, well, we don't stop when you're at the top. We'll find other keywords. We're just going to...
again to the moon, and then we get to participate in the upside. It's a solid one plus one equals three compared to the agency model, which I'll take the agency model, but it's better for a partnership.
Nick Berry (09:44)
yeah, that makes sense.
Nick Berry is an accomplished entrepreneur and CEO, whose track record includes founding and leading numerous companies since 2002.
He is also a mentor and coach to other entrepreneurs and business owners who are looking for a trusted (and proven) advisor.
Among peers, colleagues, staff, and clients, Nick has been referred to as both 'The Business Guy' as well as 'The Anti-Guru', due to his pragmatic approach and principled leadership.
He shares his insights and lessons learned, along with those of his expert guests,
on his podcast, 'The Business Owner's Journey'.
