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In this episode of The Business Owner’s Journey, host Nick Berry talks to Melissa Darville, founder of Shiver Caribbean. Melissa shares her inspiring journey from an educator to an entrepreneur, building a successful health-focused sorbet brand in the Caribbean. She discusses the challenges of scaling a business, the importance of product integrity, and how her commitment to sustainability is shaping the future of Shiver Caribbean as she dives into franchising. Whether you're interested in entrepreneurship, franchising, or the food industry, Melissa’s story offers valuable insights and lessons for business growth.
Melissa Darville’s transition from an 18-year career in education to entrepreneurship wasn’t easy, but her passion for helping children and providing healthy, all-natural products drove her forward. She taught herself the essentials of manufacturing and distribution, highlighting the importance of being a lifelong learner. "Even though it was scary, I'm OK with that because everything I've done so far has been scary."
Melissa’s decision to franchise Shiver Caribbean stemmed from her goal to enter the U.S. market and scale her business. Despite initial challenges, she learned from other Caribbean entrepreneurs and discovered that franchising allowed her to retain ownership while expanding. “My dream was to build a company up so I could sell it... now, I can sell it over and over again and still own it.”
Melissa emphasizes that maintaining product integrity is crucial, especially when expanding through franchises. Shiver Caribbean’s sorbets are made from real fruit with no preservatives or additives, a choice driven by her own experiences as a mother and educator. "It's important to me that the clients and customers are given a good deal and a healthy, healthy product."
Networking has played a significant role in Melissa’s journey. She credits organizations like Gen Global and Caribbean Women in Trade for their support and guidance, which helped her navigate the complexities of entrepreneurship and franchising. "It's a real good thing to be in a network."
Melissa understands the growing demand for health-conscious and sustainable products. She has aligned Shiver Caribbean with these market trends, sourcing ingredients from regenerative farms in the Caribbean. "The market is growing towards health-conscious and on-the-go products, and that’s where Shiver Caribbean fits perfectly."
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The Business Owner's Journey Podcast host: Nick Berry
Production Company: FCG
Melissa Darville Shiver (00:00)
Even though it was scary, I'm OK with that, because everything I've done so far has been scary. Because I went from teaching to manufacturing ice cream, and I learned everything. I am not a chef. I learned everything on YouTube. I learned everything from buying books.
Nick Berry (00:16)
and you figure it out. Yeah.
Melissa Darville Shiver (00:19)
and getting people, consultants to meet with me and tell me what to do and go in and visit in different places. That's how I learned. It's like, you know, self -taught lifelong learner. So I'm not afraid, even though it may seem intimidating
Nick Berry (00:33)
The Business Owner's Journey. I'm Nick Berry and I've got real business owners telling their real stories, sharing their real lessons and strategies so you don't have to figure it all out on your
Melissa Darville Shiver (00:45)
I had to go into franchising because my goal was to get into export and to get into the US market. And because I couldn't resolve the export and dealing with all the FDA regulations, I met someone while I was doing hosting on a panel. And she had just franchised her business and she was from Barbados. And I was just like, I didn't know we were doing that. And so she's just like, link with me later and I'll show you how to do it.
And so she hooked me up and told me what to do. And that's how I got into it and was like almost like a miracle for me because my dream was to build a company up so I could sell it. So it's always been my thing to sell the company. So now when I'm finding out about franchising, I could sell it over and over again and still own it. I'm just like, this is better than bigger than I thought. And so it's perfect. Yeah. So that's how I landed up.
Nick Berry (01:34)
Even better. Yeah.
Melissa Darville Shiver (01:41)
into franchising. didn't have an idea to do that at first. I just wanted to build it, get popularity, get in the US, be noticed, and hopefully someone would buy it. Yeah.
Nick Berry (01:53)
And so when you're talking about you, wanted to be able to export, you're talking about, shiver the sorbet. And so you're selling it or you were selling it retail.
Melissa Darville Shiver (01:57)
Mm -hmm. Shiva. Yes.
Yeah, was selling it. My initial intention was to just do manufacturing and sell to distributors. However, that became a block because we only have two major distributors in the Bahamas. And they are booked out with their US clients. So they only had a small amount of shelf space that they could give to me and their time. So what I had to do was end up getting my own trucks and start to distribute for myself.
Nick Berry (02:31)
Okay. And so, when, how long ago was that?
Melissa Darville Shiver (02:35)
That would have been, we started in 2014. I think in six months I got onto the food store shelves. And then shortly after that about, no, I think maybe about 2020 maybe, 2020, because I did a lot of drop -offs. So I had offices. So my first thing was I had offices and people in the workspace who would take lunch orders. And that was my first thing. So I would do deliveries for lunch.
and then events and that type of stuff. That's what I did first before I got into the stores. And then after I got into the stores, then I got into the hotels. And so I had like, really, I had a lot of wholesale customers and wholesale money coming in. So I didn't really have to, it was sufficient for me because my goals weren't that big back then. I was just happy that I got the brand off the ground. People loved it. And I was making money. And so at that point, that was,
Good enough for me. That was good enough.
Nick Berry (03:36)
Yeah. Okay. And so is that when you said that you had gotten up to like 40 locations?
Melissa Darville Shiver (03:42)
Yeah, we got up to 40 locations. So we were in gas stations like Shell, Esso, Rubis, a lot of small convenience stores, delis, restaurants, schools, public schools, private schools. So that was our market. So like B -level locations. Yeah.
Nick Berry (04:02)
OK, and they're they're selling at retail. It's packaged.
Melissa Darville Shiver (04:05)
And they were selling, yeah, they were selling for retail. So I would sell to them for wholesale. And so the deal I had with them, would give them, let them use my custom freezer, free of cost. And then I could restock it whenever it was empty or low.
Nick Berry (04:18)
And so the franchise now that in the United States that you're offering is it will are they preparing the products on site? Okay.
Melissa Darville Shiver (04:28)
On site, yes, yes. I looked into the co -packing, but I think in the beginning, I really want to have control over the quality of the product and all the ingredients that are into it, because that's a major thing for me, because we use all real fruit, no preservatives, no additives, nothing extra. It's all natural, no colorings or anything. So a lot of parents choose it, a of mothers choose it, who have kids with allergies, because I had like a one mother, her child had never had anything strawberry until my sorbet.
because her child is allergic to the red dye. And so she would hunt me down for that sorbet. And then there were a lot of people who were in cancer treatment. They liked the soursop. And so I had one lady, she came to me crying and she said her husband was so low in the hospital and all he asked her for, honest to goodness, was a soursop sorbet. And I was just like, my gosh. So it's like a product that people were really loving because something natural that they could trust.
And so that was important to me to make sure that that part of the brand stuck. And because sometimes, you know, if you have people helping to win it themselves, they'll be like, well, let's look at the cost. Let's look at the budget. Let's do it for the money. But I want to make sure that that the clients and the customers are given a good deal and a healthy, healthy product.
Nick Berry (05:47)
Yeah, so let's go into the product a little bit more. Like what got you into that? Why is it so important to you that it be a healthy product?
Melissa Darville Shiver (05:49)
huh.
Well, because I'm a mother. I have four children. And I'm one of my daughters. She's lactose intolerant. And so the sorbet is non -dairy, it's vegan. And so it was important to me as like my integrity as a mother to always provide something that's good for your kids because there's so much junk out there. then kids get, and also as a teacher, I'm used to all the sugar rushes and all the kids eating junk. And then we have to pay the price of that when they come and sit down in the classroom. So it's just...
Nick Berry (06:18)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Melissa Darville Shiver (06:25)
like integrity that made me want to do it. Because I initially, didn't even really do the ice cream, the dairy until after COVID, after the lockdown stopped, because so many people were requesting the ice cream. And so that's when I finally started, I launched the ice cream line. Yeah, but before it was solely just sorbet.
And that was a challenge as well because when I came out, nobody really was doing sorbet. We had like Italian ice in the food store, but nobody really knew about sorbet. And so, you know, everyone would call it, is this sherbet? And I'm like, no, it's not sherbet. And so I had to do a lot of education and I had to like teach a lot of people, this is what it is. It's real fruit, you know, it's just like a popsicle. It's made with real fruit, you know, it's less than hundred calories. It has all the nutrients and vitamins.
Nick Berry (06:54)
Mm
That's me.
Melissa Darville Shiver (07:13)
And like saying that fact, I wasn't even really saying that at first, not until like 2019 when I did the competition in Saudi, when the judges were interrogating me, he was like, you know, the way that you produce it, you still have all the nutrients and vitamins in the product. And I'm like, yes. He's just like, but you don't push that. And we're just like, I just was going on taste. And so this is another reason why I encourage the entrepreneurs who I work with.
Nick Berry (07:34)
Hmm. Yeah.
Melissa Darville Shiver (07:40)
to get in competitions because when you're in the competition, they point out things to you that can help you improve your product and your branding and how you represent your product. And so that changes. So from that moment on, I always use that. Still has all the nutrients. And then the fact that all the fruit that I use, they're all super fruit. They're all super fruit. And that's amazing. So it has a lot of really good characteristics.
Nick Berry (08:05)
Yeah.
Melissa Darville Shiver (08:09)
that regular snacks and frozen desserts don't have, you know?
Nick Berry (08:13)
Yeah. And I mean, those are things that it seems like the consumers are becoming more and more aware and it is appealing more and more to them. Right. Is the market for that growing?
Melissa Darville Shiver (08:23)
Yes, especially in the EU. And that's what my next goal is. Because right now as I'm doing my studies with, because I have study up on the trade, because you you can use a consultant, but knowing something helps you in the conversation and helps with the whole discussion. So EU, they're really into everything all natural, natural ingredients, no preservatives, no additives and everything like that. And so I'm just like, shit, it's just perfect. It's just perfect. So, you know.
So, but it's heading toward what the trend is in the US as well. Everything natural, sustainable, and the farms that we use, you know, they're regenerative. because that was the question I had like when I did climate launch pad. They asked me what type of farms I was getting my produce from. And I couldn't answer because I never went to the farm. And so what I did after that competition was I went to St. Lucia.
And I went and I visited the farms, talked with the farmers and found out what style of farming that they were using. Because now I'm finding out that, you know, customers, they want to know more than just the product. They want to know if you're treating the farmers right. They want to know, you know, about fair trade. They want to know if how you're using the earth resources. You know, if you're, you know, and so that led me to finding out and doing the whole profile for Shiver and comes up.
We're a grade A carbon footprint. And I'm just like, what, really? Because, you know, compared to, yeah, dairy is a, ice cream is a C, C grade, just because of the cows and everything else. And so with the sorbet using the fruit and the type of trees that it comes from, you know, because they live 30, 40, 50 years, it's a grade A, it's a grade A carbon footprint.
Nick Berry (09:55)
Okay.
Okay, so I is that uncommon? Is grade A, is it?
Melissa Darville Shiver (10:11)
It's uncommon. It's uncommon. It's like organic food level. Yeah. But I can't say organic because organic, that's a whole nother level of certification. So I'm going to get into that. But I haven't jumped into that yet. That's another level of verifying everything from the ground up. Yeah.
Nick Berry (10:15)
Okay. Okay.
Mm -hmm.
Okay.
Why did you go to St. Lucia? Why St. Lucia?
Melissa Darville Shiver (10:32)
because they have the farms there. St. Lucia is a volcanic island, so their soil is so deep. When you walk on the farms, it comes up to your shins. And they have the rivers that run right next to the farm, so the irrigation is just everything. The trees, I'm saying the trees are like two -story high buildings. I've never seen trees that big. And they're doing exports. So they export already. And they have, and they pulp.
Because I don't take in raw fruit, I take in the pulp. Because that's a whole other process, just pulp and fruit. Yeah.
Nick Berry (11:09)
Okay, so you're going to be sourcing from St. Lucia into the States or the U. Okay.
Melissa Darville Shiver (11:13)
Yeah, from the Eastern Caribbean. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to be sourcing from the Eastern Caribbean. because they have like that's one of the other problems like with some of the entrepreneurs that I met in the Eastern Caribbean. They're like crying because in mango season, mangoes are just rotten in by the thousands because there's only so much fresh mango you can export and that you could sell. And so we need they need additional products that can use the fruit. So it's not wasted.
And so when they saw what I was doing, they're just like, hey, so we don't have to throw away so much stuff because they've been freezing it. But then it's like only so many things. People were doing like mango cheesecake and like daiquiris and stuff with that. But, you know, that's on a like a retail level. So if they could have someone that says, OK, I need this, you know, because like one of the farmers, he said this tree, you can have everything that's on this tree. And like that's how they would do it. So if you go into a relationship with a farmer, they would
like secure a certain section of the land and a certain number of trees and say everything in this section is for you. And so you're sure that you you're going to have you don't have to worry about the traditional the season seasonal fruit because they'll pulp everything and freeze it for you. Enough for the year.
Nick Berry (12:30)
Okay. so you've got the sourcing with the farmers and you built your own distribution system. Now we're you're franchising in the United States and that you, you just got your FTD done. said earlier this year. Yeah. So it's go time.
Melissa Darville Shiver (12:31)
You
In March. I just got it done in March. Yes, it's go time. So now I had to learn about the trade shows because I went to see one and I was so intimidated. I'm just like, my goodness, I'm not a seller like this. And I was really intimidated. I spoke to a few people, but I was really afraid because I went there without I went with my brochure, but I didn't take my product. And I'm so used to whenever I was doing any type of sales or pitch or any type of pop up. I always had my baby right in my hand.
And then my thing would be just taste it and you'll come back to me. That was always my thing because I knew it had such a, you know, such a taste that even if you walked off and you didn't want to talk to me, by the time you finished it or got halfway through the cup, you would circle back around and be like, okay, let me find out how much this cost. What can you do for me? What can I do for you? And so I went there without my baby. And so I felt kind of lost. So I took a step back and I did, I just finished a class with learning how to prepare for a trade show.
Nick Berry (13:29)
Mm
Melissa Darville Shiver (13:42)
learning about the booth, how to communicate with the customers, the prep before you go, the paperwork you need when you get there, how to do the follow up, because I didn't know all that. I was just like, I'm just going to talk to people and I'm going to sell. And then I'm finding out, no, that's not what a trade show is about. A trade show is just about communication and meeting people and building trust. That's not where the real sales goes, unless you have a previous relationship with someone. But that's the main thing there is just being seen.
know, getting on the market and letting people know you're there. And so I'm just like, see, I didn't even know that. So it's like a lot of things I'm learning, because I'm new. I'm new to franchising. you know, that's why I'm saying, even though it was scary, I'm OK with that, because everything I've done so far has been scary. Because I went from teaching to manufacturing ice cream, and I learned everything. I am not a chef. I learned everything on YouTube. I learned everything from buying books.
Nick Berry (14:38)
and you figure it out. Yeah.
Melissa Darville Shiver (14:41)
and getting people, consultants to meet with me and tell me what to do and go in and visit in different places. That's how I learned. It's like, you know, self -taught lifelong learner. So I'm not afraid, even though it may seem intimidating because where everyone else is, when you get to the trade show, I understand that, you know, I'm basically a baby, but I know my business. You know, I've been doing it for 10 years. I know what I do, but it's just that sales part, you know, because I'm used to selling.
unit or a palette. Now I'm selling, trying to sell the whole store. So it's different.
Nick Berry (15:16)
Yeah. But you've got that learner, that rookie mentality, right? That you just, know, there's a lot you don't know and your way to figuring it out is just go face it. I mean, it's funny. You kind of caught me off guard when you said that you were intimidated by the trade show. was like, after that just doesn't sound like you'd be intimidated by really anything after you, the way that you've approached figuring out the manufacturing, the distribution, sourcing, going, getting into the competitions. It's like,
Melissa Darville Shiver (15:27)
Yeah, yep.
Nick Berry (15:46)
This is someone who, and I fully appreciate this. It's like, I have to go and lean into whatever this blind area is to figure it out.
Melissa Darville Shiver (15:55)
But it's also about respect. Because it's just like you go into a doctor and you're like, they don't know what they're talking about. I could look this up. No, you have to have respect that people put in time and they actually have a talent. So you just can't, or like going into the Olympics and thinking that you could win the race. No, have respect for the amount of time that other businesses has put into it. So I have respect for that. And I understand that it would take time for me to get there. Yeah.
Nick Berry (16:08)
Mm
Yeah. So, you, hopefully you're not the only person on your teams. You're not going to have to figure out everything. Like what does a franchise HQ look like right now?
Melissa Darville Shiver (16:31)
Yeah, no, we have, well, I have a consultant team. So all I have to do is what I know how to do. then so like website development and accounting, legal, copyright and trademark and all of that registering someone else handles that. We have a sales team. So that's the good part. And without a team, I wouldn't have been able to do it without a team. Yeah.
Nick Berry (16:54)
Yeah, so what's what are your obstacles like? What's the big challenge written in front of you at the moment?
Melissa Darville Shiver (17:00)
Because I live in the Bahamas, getting to the trade shows, so I have to make a commitment to get on the circuit. Because they have them every month, every couple weeks, so when it starts September, I think next week or this week is one of the first ones. So it's just being able to get to the US and attend the shows and put the time in.
Nick Berry (17:25)
are you getting interest? Like what kind of investment or opportunity is Shiver for a prospect?
Melissa Darville Shiver (17:32)
Well, I think it's a perfect investment for someone who's already been in the food business, someone who has been working, like managing a store already, so you already know how to get all that done. So it'll be a great opportunity for you because you'll get basically a blueprint of what to do and you'd be able to make more than what you were making as salary as an owner. I'm really, think my target is, I would say a female.
but it doesn't have to be a female. just saying, because of the whole ice cream, so someone who either is in the food business or someone maybe who's in marketing even who knows, maybe they're not familiar with the kitchen, but they really know how to get the crowd in. Or even someone who has some type of affiliation with the Caribbean or South America or like the Latin communities because they would remember, they would know the fruit.
And so that, but I think those would be the first set of people who would be drawn towards the product. And then everyone else, know, everyone's experimenting with other fruits now, exotic fruits. And there are different models because my original model is the storefront, but it can work easily.
the way that I was doing it before with asset freezers if you just want to have, because I just went, came back from Miami to visit a ghost kitchen because that's, was interested in that. So you can have a ghost kitchen and then set up carts and kiosks, or you could have a ghost kitchen and set up a food truck, or if you want to do the traditional storefront, you could produce in the back and just have your storefront in the front, or you know, you can go if you're into the brokerage, you know, if you come from a brokerage background and you know really how to get things on shelves, then you could also go from
go that route, you know, because it has a lot of legs. It has a lot of legs because it works well in the storefront and it works well in stores by itself because, I didn't bring a cup with me, but they're pretty pretty cups. So we a little gold rim and yeah, they're little pretty cups. Yeah. So like, it seems something like this, like my little cups, they're all bright and stuff like that. So.
Nick Berry (19:36)
I've seen one. I actually saw one on your LinkedIn profile, a video.
Mm -hmm.
Melissa Darville Shiver (19:47)
You would, they kind of sell theirself because when you see them in the stores, you'd be like, what is this? You know, it draws, you know, it draws you to them. And the color was a big thing with me because my first cup was a white cup with a gold rim. And then what happened was people were digging all through the freezers trying to find their favorite flavor. I'm like, okay, this isn't going to work. I have to color code it so people could just automatically find theirs. So I did green for Sour Soap, red for Tropical.
Nick Berry (19:52)
Mm -hmm.
Melissa Darville Shiver (20:16)
like a yellow for mango, like an orangey for passion fruit. And so I just had to color code it so, and a brown for tamarind. And tamarind, let me tell you, do you have, have ever had tamarind? You don't have tamarind? Okay, tamarind is like a, it's like a, it's a brown fruit. People who love tamarind, they only buy the tamarind. Like tamarind, one guy, he was like, it's almost addictive. I'm just like, no, don't say that, don't say that. That's not a good thing. Don't say that. But tamarind lovers, they love it and they always come back for that. And that's what I find.
Nick Berry (20:27)
I don't think so.
Melissa Darville Shiver (20:45)
Initially when people get the product, they'll try all of them and they'll like all of them and then they kind of navigate between two or three of their favorites. So because it's all the palettes, so like the tamarind and the passion fruit are for like the tart palette and then the soursop is like a mellow, mango is mellow and then the tropical is like a little blend because it has like the tart from the passion fruit, little bit of pineapple, little bit of mango.
So kind of like a fruit punch type of thing. So it has something for each of, you know, each type of palette. And that was also important to me to make sure that everyone was included and you'd be able to find out your favorite. Because hardly anyone, I think I've had a few people who's been like, I don't like fruit. I've never, I don't eat fruit. And then they'll try it. I said, well, just try it. Just try it. And then they'll come back, listen, it doesn't taste like, you know. And so they'll see that it's something different. It's something different because,
So I'm pretty happy with it.
Nick Berry (21:42)
Yeah, I mean, you should be when you you treat it like it's your fifth child, right? Like you even called it like it's your baby. Yeah.
Melissa Darville Shiver (21:45)
It was, yeah it is, it is. It is my baby. And the thing is, we came up with this recipe by accident because at first when I got a little tabletop machine for my birthday, because I fell in love with ice cream in Jamaica. Okay, they have the best ice cream in Jamaica. And so I fell in love with it and I was trying to import it here so that I could sell it.
And
And so tamarind was my first and then my second was blackberry.
Nick Berry (22:45)
ice cream from Jamaica is a Jamaican thing, is this shiver Bahamian thing?
Melissa Darville Shiver (22:51)
I'm really trying to call it a Caribbean thing because the flavors are from the Caribbean islands. It's a tropical flavor. So even though I'm from the Bahamas, would call it, that's why I called it Shiva. My nickname used to be Shiva Bahamas, but I want to be more inclusive. And so it's Shiva Caribbean because I want to include, because the thing is, Bahamas,
Nick Berry (22:57)
Mm -hmm.
Okay.
Melissa Darville Shiver (23:14)
We may have the industry, but we don't have the farming because we're coral reef islands. So we don't have the type of soil that the other Eastern Caribbean islands have because they're volcanic islands. So we need each other. We need each other. Yep.
Nick Berry (23:27)
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, Caribbean works and I mean, if someone has spent much time in the Caribbean, then the flavors that are likely familiar to them, Okay.
Melissa Darville Shiver (23:36)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. And it'll be just like taking a little mini vacation because they'll remember. Hopefully they'll remember.
Nick Berry (23:41)
Mm hmm. Okay. So what can you tell me about the offering? what size territory is available?
Melissa Darville Shiver (23:49)
We're offering, it's 100 ,000 people from in the territory that you're offering. So if you just want, or you can do multiple units, you can also have that option to get a region. So I think that's pretty good. That's like the average of what you would, you know, someone would ask for. So yeah.
Nick Berry (24:10)
Okay. And what are you able to say about like out of a territory that size and the investment, any type of revenue expectations,
Melissa Darville Shiver (24:21)
well, I would say like with, it depends on how many hours you're working. So let me put it this way. Like if I worked eight hours a day, I could make 1 ,500 units of this and sell that wholesale. And that would give me $3 ,000. About $3 ,000 for that date. And that's when just working with myself and like one assistant.
I could do that. So yeah manufacturing. So if you have a storefront, you you prepare ahead of time and then you you have a stationary place so you can have people come into you. You your volume can be very different and the Bahamas only has like 200 ,000 people in total. So 200 ,000 people in total on New Providence.
Nick Berry (24:48)
Okay, and that's manufacturing producing it,
We good.
Melissa Darville Shiver (25:15)
Yeah, so if you just have in your city 100 ,000 people in your general neighborhood, 100 ,000 people, you can probably do better than that.
Nick Berry (25:25)
So if you have a territory of 100 ,000, are you able to have multiple, I guess, storefronts or locations within that area or is it, are you locked into a single location?
Melissa Darville Shiver (25:41)
it depends, you can have a different, because there is a model where you can have your storefront and then you can have additional kiosks moving around or different kiosk locations or cart locations tied to that one. Or you can also add the asset freezers in locations in your area. But we just, wouldn't want too much, we would want to protect for the next person, so.
Yeah, so that's important to just, we'd have to fine tune exactly what you would like to do. Because there's also the route, because we also worked with caterers. And that was good for us. So we would work with caterers and whenever they had weddings and events like that, we would drop off a display freezer, fill it up. And that would just be like a party favor, like how they have the candy tables. So that's also another way that you can add to your business. Yeah.
Nick Berry (26:34)
Okay. So something I was thinking about this, you tell me this might be a terrible idea, but I feel it seems like there are probably a lot of entrepreneurs out there who are, who have maybe started to do something like this or tried to get their own thing off the ground, but just haven't quite gotten it dialed in. Can't either, can't get to get it to the market or can't make any money off of it. Or what are conversions like people who have already kind of tried to start doing something like this. Are they a potentially a good fit for you?
Melissa Darville Shiver (27:03)
Yes, because I would be able to look and see where they went wrong and then help them. Because sometimes you have to pivot or iterate. Sometimes you have to do that. And it's a good thing because sometimes you can't push what you want onto the market. You have to see what the market wants and then give it that. So it may not have worked for several reasons.
That's part of the thing what I do with my entrepreneurs. I look at your situation and then we try to solve what's going on. Because sometimes it's as simple as you as a person aren't grounded and that's why you can't get the business off. You have too much going on. You're trying to do too much. You have a full -time job. You don't really have enough time to dedicate to it. You don't have enough time to study up and improve yourself. You don't have time to network within the market to get it done. So you have to really look and see why it didn't work.
Or did it work, did it not work because you couldn't get into the market? Which market were you targeting? If there are really tough competition and bullies in that market, then you have to look and see what I called, and that's why I went to the B stores, who is the underserved public in your area? Who is not served? And then that's who you go after. You said like blue ocean, like they talk about the blue ocean, you're trying to fish in the same pool where everyone else is fishing.
Go where no one else is fishing and drop your line. Or better yet, put down a fish spot. Yeah.
Nick Berry (28:32)
Yeah, well, so I mean, that makes sense in the, you know, a lot of my background is in fitness and I know a lot of people who get into it and are either practitioners delivering the service of fitness or, and they're big on like nutritional products. And so that aspect of this would really appeal to them. And I know a lot of them are the kind of people who are like, there's nothing out there that's really, that totally suits me.
I'm just going to come up with something. I'll take it to market and just serve like my existing client base or something local. And usually it's, they're just kind of added an extra thing to grind on. But if you, had something that they could like scratch that itch that was turned key like this, you've already figured out a lot of the, the challenges that they haven't. And if you, you know, values wise, as far as the nutrition and like how that fits with their beliefs.
Melissa Darville Shiver (29:13)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Nick Berry (29:31)
I, yeah, I could see a lot of people being like, Hey, you've already, you've already solved this. I just, I just want to deliver that to my.
Melissa Darville Shiver (29:36)
Yeah, solved a lot of problems. Yeah, we solved a lot of problems. So we know what to do. If you can't get into the stores, you find the B -level stores or you find schools or you find events, you find offices. I didn't start the, what do call the vending machines, but I had looked them up because that was also an option because I was thinking I could put them at airports So there's always someone.
Nick Berry (29:42)
Mm -hmm.
Melissa Darville Shiver (30:04)
who needs something. You just need to find out what that need is and how what you are good at fits into that.
Nick Berry (30:13)
So I was going to ask you about the size of the market for this.
Melissa Darville Shiver (30:17)
it's six billion or nine billion. Something like that. Yeah, I have to look it up. I know I have it written down somewhere, but yeah, it's in the billions.
Nick Berry (30:20)
Okay, it's in the paper.
Is it growing like relative to other markets growing fast?
Melissa Darville Shiver (30:27)
And then it's growing in trends, in niche groups. That's how it's growing. It's growing. People are switching to more health conscious. They're switching to smaller serving sizes. And this is what this is good for. So people want single servings so that they can portion control. They want things that are on the go.
that easy that they can just grab and go. So the serving size and the fact that it's each one of these four ounce units is less than 100 calories, that's a thing. It's nutritious. The packaging is also sustainable, recyclable.
So yeah, the market is growing towards health conscious and on the go.
Nick Berry (31:15)
what does the future look like for you and for Shiver? What's the big picture plan?
Melissa Darville Shiver (31:20)
the big plan is to, I would like the franchises to be across the US and global in the EU and in Africa. And I like to see it in stores. I would like to see people doing brokering it. I would like to see storefronts. And that's about it.
that I can see right now, like, some of the people I've met, say, you need to get to 10 locations and then you could sell the whole company. I'm just like, yeah, I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet.
Nick Berry (32:01)
you getting much pushback from prospective franchisees with not having any current franchises sold?
Melissa Darville Shiver (32:09)
Yes, I'm thinking that's what I'm getting that I don't I'm not located in the US. That's what I'm that's the thing that's reoccurring. And so that's why I was really looking into the ghost kitchen to try to get a corporate location open in Miami, and then just work with a delivery service to just get the product out there so we can get the feedback and have some numbers and everything to give and to give yeah to give to give everyone so that's what I'm thinking.
Nick Berry (32:33)
Yeah, then you have some numbers.
Melissa Darville Shiver (32:38)
that I will end up doing probably next year, getting a corporate one up and running,
Nick Berry (32:45)
So I really like what you said about you encourage other entrepreneurs to get involved getting to these competitions because you hear things that you just weren't thinking about, right? And they like a high, they'll tell you, give you ideas for like how you can be presenting branding, packaging, they'll you solve the problems. I thought that was, that's really insightful.
Melissa Darville Shiver (32:57)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Nick Berry (33:08)
I think everybody needs to have a business coach or advisor of some sort, be involved in a peer group of some sort, and be active in like the larger community of similar businesses or industries. what other support do you have around yourself to keep you developing as a business owner? How do you sharpen your saw?
Melissa Darville Shiver (33:20)
Mm -hmm.
Well, the first group that adopted me, I would say, would be Gen Global. And those are the people that was started by Jeff Hoffman, who started Expedia and invented the passport kiosks at the airport. So his team, they adopted me. And so I had won the competition for the Bahamas. And so they prepared us for a year with coaching and meeting other entrepreneurs.
and trying to get us ready for the global market. So they were my first set of people that really took, you know, we had deliverables all the time. They put, you know, fire to your feet. You know, we had expert, meeting with experts to tell us, because at that point in time, I was like looking at different marketing people and talking to people about marketing. And I'm just like, I'm not really feeling exactly what they're saying. And then I met with one of their consultants who was the expert marketer, and she was just like,
What did you come up with? I said, the only thing that really seems to work for me is doing pop -ups and getting people to taste it. She said, let me tell you, all the marketing stuff that I've done, it boils down to that is exactly what we came up with. And I was just like, okay, thank you very much. You're just confirming for me. So she said, with food, you have to get it in their mouth. They have to taste it. You have to get out there on the street and you have to give out samples. And here I was getting, they were like, you can't be giving that away for free?
what you're doing, you can't be giving that away for free. Ask them for a dollar at least, ask them for something. I'm just like, no, I just knew in myself that, I had to give enough away so that people could find out what it was all about. And that was good. So Gen Global, they really helped me. And then I started with COESL in Barbados, which is a business development group. And they were the ones who I won for Barbados for the climate launch pad.
And I worked with her, I still work along with her. And then now I'm working with Caribbean Women in Trade. And that's who's helping me and directing me with all the classes that I'm taking to learn about export, regulations, tariffs, and everything else. So each group that I have joined, you know, I always volunteer my time. I always, you know, volunteer to go on panels and help other entrepreneurs.
You know, and in turn, it's a reciprocal thing because when they meet someone who's an expert in something that they, problem that they know that I'm trying to solve, you know, they hook me up with them. And so it's a real good thing to be in a network. And for me, you know, being a woman, I kind of gravitate to networks that are geared towards women in business because they kind of understand.
you know, the other pressures, all that invisible work that we have to do. And so they kind of understand if you say, you know, I can't take that call at 2 .30. Can we do that at five? And I don't have to explain to them why. Because our school pick up time. You know, so, and the thing is, you know, when with the structured work day, it doesn't, I found it doesn't really have to be so structured that you can't leave your desk until a certain amount of time if the work still gets done.
Nick Berry (36:23)
Mm
Melissa Darville Shiver (36:37)
Because I find I work more, the last time I worked for someone was in 2003. That's the last time I worked for someone. And I have not, I have not, yes, I have not regretted it. Because I've worked harder, I think I've become a better person, I've helped more people, and I don't stick to the nine to five or the eight to three. I work more hours actually, but.
Nick Berry (36:47)
Congratulations on 20 years.
Melissa Darville Shiver (37:05)
but it's more fulfilling. It's more fulfilling. And you can work, you know, because I might, actually my best time to work is two, three in the morning. So two, three in the morning is my best time because, you know, all the air is still and it's quiet and it's like all the genius things comes at that hour.
Nick Berry (37:23)
understand. When when everything else is shut off, right, then it's like, my head can be the clearest I can do. I can think better. Yeah, so congrats on 21 years and of being an entrepreneur and and shivers 10 years old, right? Didn't I saw that?
Melissa Darville Shiver (37:30)
Mm -hmm. Yes. Yeah. You need that thinking space.
Shiva's 10 and I had a special needs school before that for 11 years. Yeah, so when I was closing up the school, I started with Shiva. Yeah. Yeah, that's how I started in January 2004. I started a school. And I started that out of seeing a need because I was the information technology teacher at a primary school and I found that the students were graduating sixth grade and not reading properly.
Nick Berry (37:51)
Okay.
Is the school what you started in 03?
Melissa Darville Shiver (38:16)
And it was like, why are we having them do all these extra subjects and they're reading in math skills? Their core things are not up to par. And so I tried, you know, doing stuff and saying, okay, let's pull them out. Let's, you know, have a more comprehensive, you know, therapy and diagnostic because that's the background that I came from diagnostic teaching. And it wasn't a need. It was just like, that's not our problem. That's their parents' problem. And I didn't, it didn't sit well with me.
And so I was just like, you know what? I'm going to start a learning center. And so I started my school. I think I had like $1 ,300 or $1 only on a picnic bench and two confirmed students. And I started my school. Because everyone said, you can't start a school because you don't have a building. And so I said, well, let me go to the Ministry of Education and find out what you need to start a school. They said, you need to have a teacher's certificate. I said, that's it? So I could teach on a bench? You could teach on a bench. I said, thank you. That's all I need to know. Start with the minimum. Start with what you have.
So I started with two girls, two sisters, and by the end of the semester I had another cousin, two cousins, and then I had seven kids by the end of that year. The next year I had 21 kids. The next year I had 40 kids. By the time I closed the school I had pre -k, primary school, junior, senior, adult learning, and Saturday school. Listen, listen. All you have to do is look, and it's because there was a need.
There were children in the community who needs were not being met and nobody saw them as important.
Nick Berry (39:48)
So what was the parents that were finding out about you that were bringing them to
Melissa Darville Shiver (39:52)
Word of mouth, was all, that was before, I think I had a Facebook group that was before the whole internet, all the social media thing blew up, that was before that. So everything was word of mouth. One friend telling the next friend. Schools started to find out about me and they were like, okay, we had a child test to come to our school, they didn't pass the test and we think you probably could help them. I'm like, okay, send them over. Send them over. And so I had everything, I children, my,
You know, my first, because at first I was doing academic weaknesses, so dyslexia, dyscalculia, and that type of stuff. And I think my first student that I had that had Down syndrome, I didn't want to take him. And I was about to tell the mom, he was five, I was about to tell the mom, I don't think I could do it. I'm like, I'm just used to, know, academic things. I don't think I can do it. And the little boy came out of the car.
reached out, put his hand on my shoulder and started to pray for me. I said, it's all over. Welcome, welcome. And that was my first real special needs student other than academic needs. And after that I had children with cerebral palsy, everything. Everyone came. And it was a home. It was a home, it was a family. For 11 years, happened, I got burnt out because now, you know, you could see everything afterwards.
Nick Berry (40:55)
Mm
For 11 years, you said?
Melissa Darville Shiver (41:17)
I think I should have been in therapy as well to help me because I was carrying the burdens. would hear the problems of the house, the problems of the parents, and then would be carrying the weight of the burden of the kid. And so was so much for me to bear. Even though we had a full staff and everything, it was emotionally a toll. And I think I had a student that passed away. He was six. He had cancer. And he passed away.
the year after I closed because it was hard because the kids would just jump up in the middle of the day, he's gone and the whole class would start crying. I would start crying. I'm like, don't think I'm emotionally, I can do this. You know, I don't think I can emotionally do this and then still be there for my kids. Yeah, so I had to, I told, I spoke to my parents and I told them I said okay and I found a spot, I placed all of my children before I closed the school.
Nick Berry (42:04)
Yeah.
Melissa Darville Shiver (42:13)
And so I took a year, I talked to my parents and I told them, said, this is what's happening with me. And they understood. They understood because, I love them and they loved me. And, you know, one of my parents, told me, she was just like, you know, she said, you 10 years is a season. And maybe that was your season to do this. And you have to move on to something else. And it sort of gave me the release. I was able to release myself from it and not feel so guilty. And, you know, like some of my, one of my boys, one of my favorite boys, he came to me like.
Nick Berry (42:31)
Mm
Melissa Darville Shiver (42:41)
three, four years old and he was like 13 then. And so, and he was just like, I'm going to be okay. And I was just like, my gosh, I'm going to be okay now. And I was just like, my goodness. Because you know, at that age, you know, everyone starts the plateau. And so it's like, once they get around 13, 14, you you start with life skills then. So academic learning kind of slows down anyways and it's time to start teaching life skills. So that was, so I had to move.
from that heavy, heavy job into making ice cream. Now you see why I to make ice cream. I needed something lighter. I needed something lighter.
Nick Berry (43:15)
I do.
Mm -hmm. Yeah, so how did it go, pulling yourself out of the burnout? Like once you closed the school, were you able to just jump right into doing ice cream?
Melissa Darville Shiver (43:33)
Yeah, I actually started because I used to cook with my kids. So I would do, we would bake and we would cook. And so I actually started making the sorbet with them that last year. Yeah. And so it was kind of, started getting, schools would start to order for their fun days and for their Christmas parties. And so I would leave the school, I would tell my kids and they'd be like, yay, go on, go on. And so like my first, didn't even have coolers then.
I had clothes hampers and I would pack the sorbet in plastic bags, tie it up and put it in the clothes hampers and drag the clothes hampers to the school. And my students, would be, they were so proud of me. Like, yes, you're doing it because what it is, I always told them, follow your dreams, you know, be the best you can be, find out what your purpose is. And so they were like, now you, you have to do that too. And I was just like, wow, I've been telling kids to do this. And so I have to follow my own.
And so I felt good, so it started out with that. And so I had a little momentum. So I really didn't have any downtime to really be sad about it. And my kids still pop up. They still pull up to my house and stop. So they still do it. In the Bahamas, yes. In the Bahamas.
Nick Berry (44:44)
And was this in the Bahamas?
That's amazing. That is a really cool story.
All right. Well, this is fantastic. Thank you very much. I really enjoyed the conversation. You've got so
Melissa Darville Shiver (44:57)
Okay, thank you too. So did I. So did I.
Nick Berry (45:03)
Thank you so much for listening. If you found the show valuable, you can say thanks and show your support simply by taking a quick second to like, share, and comment on the show. You can also find more information about each of my guests, all of the resources from the show, and myself at nickberry.info.
Nick Berry is an accomplished entrepreneur and CEO, whose track record includes founding and leading numerous companies since 2002.
He is also a mentor and coach to other entrepreneurs and business owners who are looking for a trusted (and proven) advisor.
Among peers, colleagues, staff, and clients, Nick has been referred to as both 'The Business Guy' as well as 'The Anti-Guru', due to his pragmatic approach and principled leadership.
He shares his insights and lessons learned, along with those of his expert guests,
on his podcast, 'The Business Owner's Journey'.
